Hello Wayne, I appreciate you taking the time to write.
You basically have 2 questions-- 1. Can you get a barking on track or open mouth dog to run quiet and 2. Are black and tans useless for hog hunting. Well, Im going to answer #2 first. Are black and tans useless for hog hunting? Answer, no, they are not useless. One of the top strike/find dogs Ive ever hunted with was a Black and Tan named "Rock". A friend up in east Texas named Eric owned/owns him. And HE RAN OPEN MOUTHED on track. And the absolute best strike/find dog I ever had to pleasure of hunting with was a Bluetick cross that RAN OPEN MOUTHED named Blue owned by a friend named Jimbo. Now, I want you to know that I personally prefer and try to own/train silent tracking dogs no matter what the breed. With that said, it seems that Im contradicting my self. And maybe I am, But, a good dog is a good dog--is a good dog in my book. Where the problem comes is a person who hunts hogs either likes totally silent dogs or they like/don't mind open trailing dogs.. Its been my experience that theres no inbetween. Most likely this is what your hearing from others that you probably hunt with. I've seen it where if cur dog (natural silent runners) hog hunters invite a friend to come along and he brings a hound (natural open runners) along for the hunt----Ive seen it where tempers flair to the point of a fight because of the silent dog hunters absolutely HATE open mouth dogs. Ive pretty much always had the opinion that if a person starts out hunting cur dogs on hogs that there is VERY LITTLE chance that they will ever like a open hound NO MATTER IF HE IS THE WORLDS GREATEST TRACK DOG! A person who has become accustom to hunting silent dogs simply doesn't like them PERIOD!. The next question a person ask or what a silent dog hog hunter says is "The hogs in our area are like deer. If they hear a dog barking they will hit the road running and never stop"... Or they might say "a hound runs a track way to slow". Well, in a lot of ways they are correct. But, hogs in my area, or your area, or anyones area run like deer also. So I don't always agree with the hogs in their area being harder to catch. What it all boils down to is (in my opinon) the size of the place you have to hunt on, the type of ground, how fast you want to catch the hog, and understanding the way a hound hunts. I've run full blooded hounds, curs, half hounds, bull dog mixes etc for a good many years, But I don't take all hounds in the area where I live simply because of the size of permission land. The largest permission land spot I have to hunt on at this time is 1600 acres. Most places where I live are usually just a couple of hundred acres. If I take a barking on track hound to one of my spots, its almost a guarantee that the hog is going to be bayed up out of my permission land place, but not always. But if they get on a cold track (several hours old) the hog mostlikely is no where near where I put the dog on the track. Where as, If I was hunting with a hotter nosed dogs (runs fresh track) the hog is probably still pretty close. Hope that makes sense. And yes, its been my experience that if a dog is barking on track, that the hog is going to hear him coming long before he gets to the hog. So a person might ask, "if that's the case, why in the world would you hunt with a hound at all?" Well, in my opinion, heres the answer---not all areas to hunt have an abundance of hogs. So, a lot of folks hunt by putting a dog on a track. Where as others simply drive around and locate fresh sign, or cast a dog to go find one, or drive till they see hogs and turn dogs on them. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE AREA AND HOG SUPPLY what I think. When I go visit a friend of mine in Lousianna, I usually will hunt with hounds barking or not... The land is paper company land and thousands of acres of it. We track hunt, or find a track or sign that the hound can follow. Where as in my area, I usually cast a dog and he goes and hunts up the hog for me. I hope all that makes sense. My suggestion to you is, if you like your black and tan and you cant get him to run quiet, if for you to find other hunting partners who either don't mind barking on track dogs, or someone to hunt with that also has hounds. It just wont work, if two or more people hunt together, and ones likes quiet dogs and the other likes open dogs.... Tempers will flair :-) Now to question #1.... Is there a way to get your dog to run quiet? The following is a question and answer I wrote a couple of 2-3 years ago by a man named Ted. The following is his complete question and my complete answer... I hope in some way I have been able to answer your question... Good luck with your hound.... Jim
*************QUESTION FROM TED*************
Jim, I really enjoy your columns in Bayed Solid and I know you have a lot of knowledge about hogs, dogs, coaching, etc. In particular I know you like your Plott hounds and may be able to help me with my problem. I have got a couple of young dogs (16-18 months old) that I am working with some real experienced closed mouth hog dogs that my friends have. These young are half Plott and half Black Mouth Cur (not that it matters I am just trying to give you an idea of what these dogs might be like). I really like the dogs because they show a true desire to hunt pigs, and they really try to please me. The problem I am having with one of them is he gets so excited when he is winding or on a fresh track that he starts to whine and give off a few loud chirping barks before he even sees the pigs which are about 75-100 yards away. When the pigs hear that chirp/bark they take off down a steep canyon or over a steep ridge and never look back getting way too much of a head start in nasty, brushy steep country which means they are gone for good. In the mean time the older experienced dogs which are totally closed mouthed dogs are running around following this little rookie because they think he is baying something. Needless to say this little episode did not please me or the guys I was hunting with and the little rookie remained restricted to the leash for the rest of the night (he hates that). With the full moon lately I witnessed the situation described above twice last week. Do you have any advice for keeping that dog quiet until he is face to face with the pigs? - Thanks for your time!
Answer: Dear Ted, I appreciate your question, and thanks for sending it. Well it seems you're wanting the same kind of dog that I like, "a hound nose that is a silent runner". I don't know what advice I can give you to help. But what I will do is share my experience and what I've used to try and solve the same problem. Yes, I use Plott hounds, but as I've said in previous responses, I don't take a pack of Hounds hunting. At the most I take two hounds and the rest are silent cur dogs, and each dog I take hunting, unless he is a young one in training will strike his/her own hog. I don't have one or two strike dogs and the rest bay dogs as some people. Everything I decide to keep can do it by their selves. The reason I mention this is because I use different dogs for different situations. It has been my experience that if you hunt several dogs at one time, and one dog is an open or mouthy dog on track, that if the mouthy dogs opens on track, the other silent dogs will go to him EXPECTING to find a hog. But there's usually no hog to be found since the dog is probably cold trailing and the silent cur dogs get frustrated after they go to him once or twice and don't honor the dogs bark anymore. I think from your question, that this is the problem you're having a concern about, also your hunting partners aggravate you about your open dog. A hound is a remarkable animal to hunt with, especially one that has a good nose and one who loves to find hogs. I've mentioned over and over in previous articles that if a person starts out with cur or silent type dogs, and decides he needs to get him a hound with more nose and longer range hunting style that VERY FEW people can make the changeover to a hound. The reason????? The exact same thing as your question asks about: the dog barks - the other dogs go to him - and there's no hog yet. What the key word or the most important word of the last sentenc is, is the word YET. To solve the dilemma, one of two things must take place. #1 either you're going to have to figure out how to get your dog silent and only bark when they are looking at the hog or #2 you're going to have to listen and learn how to read your dog's voice on when he is bayed AND AT THAT TIME send in the calvary. Let's talk about each of these. #1 getting your dog silent. Some dogs can learn to be silent, some will never learn. I think it starts with the breeding. If a person is wanting a silent hound, it's been my experience that he doesn't want one who's parents were cold nosed and could run a 6 to 18 hours old track...The colder the nose, the more chance the dog is going to be open. But if you can find a hound who's parents were medium nose hounds that can run a 2 to 5 hour old track, you have a chance. Next, is how you start the dog. If I have a hound that I'm wanting to start in the woods, for a long time I will do nothing with him but send him to the bay. I'm talking 30 plus bays not one or two or three. Next, I never train a hound by turning him out with other young hounds that are barking dogs. I TRAIN ONE YOUNG HOUND AT A TIME, and this includes the half hound half cur bred dogs. I want the cur part of them to come out on trailing, not the hound part. If you want your dog to be silent, YOU HAVE TO RUN HIM WITH SILENT DOGS. That's a must!!! It's kinda like hunting with someone who has a dog that will trash, you don't want to do that. Dogs learn from one another, so let him learn from another silent dogs. I have mostly silent hounds. I have people call me all the time wanting me to sell them a silent hound. Do I sell my silent hounds? Heck no, never!! I had to work too hard and have put too many hours into hunts and training to get them that way, and I don't sell my finished dogs anyway. I've only sold one real good hound in about 5 years and that one was awesome on running a track, but was way too open for my taste. He now lives off the California coast on an island and hunts for a hunter that makes his living hunting hogs. I sell pups or started dogs maybe, but not the finished ones and especially not the silent hounds. After your dog has been sent to several bays and starts running to the bay silent, and he should figure that out, it's time to let him start trying to learn to find or strike a hog. What I do is turn him out along with my best silent cur dog. No more dogs, just those two and try it that way for awhile... have patience, most dogs don't quiet down immediately. It's been my experience that they will bark at first and the more hogs you put them on the quieter they will get. Some hounds people think are barking on track especialy the young dogs, are actually getting out run by another dog and are trying to keep up. So if you know your young hound will find his own hog, turn him out on a track alone with no help and listen. It's kinda like coon hunters do. They know from the voice of the dog when he has struck and is running a track, and they know from his voice when he's treed. The dog has a change over in his voice pattern. The problem with doing this is your hunting partners might not have the patience to let you train your dog.. This is one reason I only hunt with about 3 different people. They know that I'm constantly training a hound and don't get upset if he opens up while I'm training. The way I do it with my partners is we alternate dogs. I turn mine out to hunt, then they turn theirs out when I catch mine up. I've seen numerous times people get good quality hounds that if given the time would have eventually quieted down. But their hunting partners harassed them so bad that they are embarassed to bring the dog and end up getting rid of the dog to avoid the scrutiny. Silent hounds aren't born, they're made about 90% of the time. #2 Learn and listen to your dog and know what he's doing. As I've already mentioned, coon hunters know what their dogs are doing by their bark...you have got to know too. The easiest way I know to learn when he's bayed is watch the dog and listen to the dog while watching him bay a hog. I mean listen good and remember that sound. Usually an open hound will have longer barks or bawls on a track and will chop when looking at one. To sum it up. Very few hounds are born silent, you have to train them to be that way. Any time someone buys a puppy from me, they ask me the same question you did. I give them the same answer I gave you. Remember a hound is not a cur dog. If you're wanting a hound to hunt like a cur dog, you have to make the hound THINK he's a cur dog. The way I hunt is this. I let the hound strike the hog and send the cur dogs to him. It just doesn't work hunting a hound at the same time with a pack of other dogs, especially if you haven't got him silent yet. He will open up, the curs go to him, there's no hog, and the curs come back and don't honor the dog anymore. I feel I'm more fortunate than most since I have this 100 acre training facility. When I go over there by myself and take a hound that I'm working with, I take that hound alone with maybe one cur dog back up, but NEVER two hounds. I have one gyp that I'm working with now that has a cold-cold nose and was REAL open. I've had her in there about 20 times. She is finally figuring out that if she starts barking on a track that the hog is gonna run, and she is figuring out for herself that in order for her not to have to run him all around the pasture, that she needs to be quieter. This is the first one that I've ever worked with that was basically a finished dog that was open on track when I started working with her. She first started quieting down between bay ups. I've noticed the last 3 or 4 times I've taken her that she is not barking on track but about 1/3 of what she was when I started. I don't know if I can do it or not, but I'm hoping to get her totally silent. One other thought before I close I just remembered. Let's say you get your hound to be silent, NEVER NEVER run him with an open dog or his natural instict will return to bark on track. I learned this the hard way about 5 years ago. It took me a month to get him quieted down again. Remember, getting a hound to run silent is UNNATURAL. A hound is supposed to be open. Coon hunters and bear hunters cull hounds who don't bark on track all the time. You are trying to train the dog to go against nature, so you have to have the patience to do it... I know this was wordy. And I probably didn't say everything I needed to say. If you want, just give me a call for further information if you want. If you don't need the meat, leave it on its feet, and collar up, vest up and protect those dogs and they will take care of you.
Jim